Mindfulness gone mainstream: Jenn George Caliguri, Headspace Inc.

We all have that someone we admire from afar – who juggles family, career and passions while maintaining a strong sense of self.

Enter Jenn George Caliguri, Global Director of Public Relations and Influencer Marketing for Headspace. Before she worked for the digital health company that provides guided meditation training and mindfulness, we PR’ed together at Cone Communications and I’ve always recalled her energetic & adventurous spirit. With two kids in tow (we rescheduled this interview because she went into labor #priorities), she and her husband manage to rock a dual career household & plenty of international travel. We recently sat down to chat about both life’s ‘ohm’ and ‘omg’ moments.

Her top tip: “Your career isn’t a ladder, it’s a lattice.”

This interview was conducted Boston to LA via Facetime & was condensed and edited for clarity.

Headspace, with heart

Jenn! Congrats on adorable baby Madeline and thanks for taking the time to chat .

Happy to! I’m currently in the middle of a very generous 4-month maternity leave. Hopefully she stays calm. [We Facetimed with Jenn’s adorable newborn in her lap].

Headspace – tell us about it.

Headspace is a digital health brand focused on meditation and mindfulness. With 1200 hours of content in the app itself, we just surpassed 56 million members in 190 countries. It’s funny: app-based meditation is relatively new, but we often forget that meditation is not. It’s been around thousands of years. 

Andy, our co-founder and the voice in the app, knows the history of meditation better than anyone. After university in London, he spent a decade in Southeast Asia and Tibet studying meditation and becoming an ordained Buddhist monk. He returned to the UK with a desire to share what he’d learned at scale. There, he met our co-founder Rich Pierson, a burned-out ad executive, and the two of them built Headspace into the incredible platform it is today.

Headspace has helped take meditation mainstream.

In a sense, yes. Meditation is a time-honored tradition and ancient practice but it also boasts numerous health benefits backed by modern science. 

In fact, Headspace is committed to advancing mindfulness and meditation through clinically-validated research on its own product. Our in-house science team has partnered with Harvard, Stanford, Carnegie Mellon and USC, among others, to initiate some of the most rigorous studies ever conducted on meditation. Translation: we’ve completed or are in process on more than 70 studies related to the clinical efficacy of the Headspace app on health outcomes. Headspace has been shown to have favorable outcomes including reduced stress, improved focus, increased compassion, and decreased aggression.

Science is clearly one of the pillars of your PR efforts, what are the others?

If you’re familiar with Headspace, you probably know us for our consumer content but we also have an enterprise segment, Headspace for Work. We offer our products to companies and their employees as benefits, and have relationships with some of the world’s most recognized brands: Apple, Amazon and Nike. 

Sport and education are other important areas for us. We’re the NBA’s exclusive meditation & mental training partner and on the education front, we offer free access to K-12 teachers and school administrators in select countries through our Headspace for Educators program. Ultimately, we’re working to meet people where they are, whether that’s in their home, the office, on the field, or in the classroom.

What about global expansion?

We’ve have millions of English-language global users but in 2019, we launched Germany and France in their native languages. Given today’s socio-economic and geopolitical turmoil, the world is becoming an increasingly stressful place so we’re committed to making our content more accessible in our users’ native languages.

Tell us about Headspace’s culture.

The culture is probably exactly what you’d expect! Our co-founders’ vision of making the world a happier, healthier place permeates the organization. All employees are encouraged to meditate, so we offer twice-per-day meditation sessions: 10am and 3 pm. We also have dedicated meditation rooms where you can sit in silence any time (i.e. after a stressful commute).

Bigger picture, whenever we interview potential candidates, we assess them on our three core values to determine culture fit: Curious Mind, Courageous Heart and Selfless Drive.

Did you meditate before joining Headspace or has it become a part of your daily routine since joining? 

I’ve been meditating for six years. When I first moved to LA, I read a book called “The Morning Miracle” by Hal Elrod that advocated for a daily, morning ritual: a mix of affirmations, journaling and meditation. It’s tough with a newborn, but I try to spend an hour by myself around 4 or 5am and do four things: journal, read affirmations, meditate for about 10-20 minutes and then work out. 

I also try to meditate at our 10am group session and sometimes at night. It sounds like a lot but if I do all three, it’s only about 30 minutes total and it makes a huge difference in my productivity, focus and presence.

You mentioned meditating when you’re stressed – do people tend to meditate reactively vs. proactively?

I view daily meditation like a multivitamin, a way to prevent and deal with stressors. My husband, however, approaches meditation differently. He won’t meditate for weeks or months but when an event triggers stress, he plugs into Headspace to decompress.

Stepping Back / Career History

Let’s take a step back & reflect on what brought you to where you are today.

I went to Syracuse for undergrad where I also ran cross country (Go Orange!). While in college, I interned in Boston where I went on to work after graduation. First, Schneider Associates, where we launched new products for brands like Baskin-Robbins and NECCO Confectionery Company (the maker of the iconic Valentine’s Day candy hearts). I then moved on to Cone Communications where I worked in Brand Marketing and Cause Branding for clients such as Nestle, and Deloitte.

Part of what spurred my interest in Cause Branding was my first solo, international trip to Kenya. I spent two weeks at a school for rescued girls and I can’t underscore enough how this brief experience changed my perspective on work and life. I remember riding the T, Boston’s subway system, home from the airport and feeling an energy shift. In rural Kenya, there was an obvious material poverty but a wealth of spirit. On the T that day, I felt the exact opposite. I knew I wanted to continue volunteering and eventually, have a global angle to my career.

Tell us about the decision to attend business school. 

I attended Boston University for an MBA and to gain international experience. BU offered a 1.5 year accelerated program that kicked off with the class consulting small & medium-sized Chinese businesses on how to enter the U.S. market. I absolutely loved Shanghai – if I spoke Mandarin, I would live there! Unfortunately, the only things I learned to say were, “Please take me to this address” and “I’d like the red wine, please.” 

Upon graduation, what sparked the move from Boston to California? 

My now husband, Patrick. We started dating right before I went to China – talk about long distance!

Once back in the US, we dated cross-country for about two years – and built up a lot of Delta Skymiles – before I graduated and landed a job in LA. It was a whirlwind: I graduated on a Saturday, moved across the country on a Sunday and started my new job on Monday.

You landed at The Wonderful Company. Did you aim to continue in PR or did you aim for a career transition?

I went to business school thinking I wanted to transition to Brand Management but having spent most of my time at an agency, wasn’t sure how I’d move in-house. I discovered The Wonderful Company, who owns and sells FIJI Water, POM Wonderful, Wonderful Pistachios, Teleflora and JUSTIN wines. The company is amazing in that it’s completely vertically integrated – they own the entire supply chain that powers the products – and the Communications team operated as an in-house agency supporting all brands. To me, that was ideal: I was able to use my PR, CSR and change management skillset to make and implement comms & business recommendations.

How did you transition that experience to Murad?

After three years at Wonderful, I moved to Murad as Head of PR, Social Media & Influencer Marketing and absolutely loved it. Like a lot of people, I struggled with acne in my teen years and actually used Murad to help control flare-ups. So it was a personal joy for me to help evangelize the efficacy of the Murad line of skincare. 

One of my favorite parts of working at Murad was the opportunity to work with the founder, Dr. Howard Murad. It’s hard to describe him because he’s so much more than a dermatologist. The youngest of six children born to Iraqis immigrants, he put himself through college, pharmacy school and medical school before starting his own company at 50 and ultimately, reinventing himself as a champion of Modern Wellness. He’s a true visionary.

While at Murad, I helped launch 10+ new products per year with our retail partners, built Murad’s influencer programming, and led the brand’s first purpose campaign called “Eyes Up.” The campaign had a dual purpose: encouraging real life human connections outside of social media and educating the consumer on the very real health impact of our devices. There’s research demonstrating that blue light from our devices can actually go even deeper into our skin than sunlight can and can even lead to phenomenons like tech neck, so it was a relevant program on a few fronts.

And then came Headspace. 

In making the decision to move to tech and join Headspace, I leaned on a former client who once told me: “Don’t think of your career as a ladder, think of it as a lattice.” In other words, don’t continually look for the next job title or opportunity to climb; think about how your next role will round-out your skills and professional toolbox. Since joining Headspace in 2018, I couldn’t have asked for a more exciting, enjoyable place to be.

Is there a theme can you thread throughout your career moves?

The real thread throughout my career has been two-fold: working for impassioned, founder-led companies and advancing the conversation around health. As a runner and a mama, health and wellness is super important to me; it makes my job much more meaningful and my work more impactful when I can see how my contributions make a difference. 

Road Warrior

Switching gears – you’re in a dual career household with a lot of business travel on both sides. How do you and your partner manage?

It’s tricky. As a working mother, I’ve realized there’s no such thing as balance. My husband and I prioritize each others’ careers, though usually not at the same time. Having honest, upfront conversations early and often means that we engage in a give-and-take dynamic versus feeling like one partner always has to be the ‘breadwinner.’

Of course, it’s easy to say and more challenging to put into practice. It takes deliberate and orchestrated prioritization. We typically sit down with a giant calendar and map out our respective commitments to ensure no overlap. Patrick’s a freelance producer and he travels a lot for business as well. Just a few months ago, I was on a red eye back from Europe and that same afternoon, Patrick was leaving to shoot American Idol auditions in Idaho so we had to do a childcare hand-off. There was just a short window between our flights, so thank goodness there were no delays!  It’s certainly not always easy, but this give-and-take allows us to be there for our kids and nurture our individual careers.

One constant amid the chaos is your love for travel. You love it, I love it and we prioritize it – how do you make set aside time for one of your passions?

A lot of people book big international trips a year or more in advance. We tend to book things somewhat last minute to ensure it aligns with our work schedules.

As a result, I try not to over plan or become too rigid about a particular destination. For example, Patrick was working in Peru right after Jack was born and I flew down for a long weekend (leaving the baby with my mom and dad). Peru wasn’t necessarily on the top of my travel list, but I found myself loving every minute. It was incredible. 

To me, the beauty of traveling is the adventure itself and removing myself from a routine. So I find myself saying ‘yes’ to a lot of unplanned opportunities.

What’s your travel philosophy? For example, do you maximize by tying business & personal travel together?

I try to add on a day or two to work travel for myself – there’s something so introspective and freeing about seeing a new place on your own. You meet the most interesting people and get to see things through your own lens.

Last year, I was in London for work and hopped on a train to Edinburgh for the weekend and loved it. We just went back as a family so I could share it with them. So, if I had to articulate my travel philosophy, it’s: Just say yes, and don’t overthink it. 

That’s funny because being in PR, you’re both a thinker & a planner. 

I find that folks who have a trip all planned out end up viewing it like a checklist vs. an experience. Some people love checking items off a list but that’s my day-to-day life, so I like to travel with a more ‘go with the flow’ mindset. You never know where some unexpected encounter might take you!

I love that school of thought. Sounds like we share a similar travel philosophy. Finally, traveling with kids – doesn’t sound like you guys will be slowing down at all?

No, we won’t be slowing down. Patrick and I talked about this a lot before our two-year old son Jack was born because travel is so important to us, personally and professionally. We viewed it like this: first, the kids are joining our family, not the other way around. A lot of people try to tell you that life has to dramatically change when you have kids, but we’ve tried hard to find a middle ground.

The other piece is that we don’t want our kids to have a myopic view of the world. Traveling gives us an opportunity to show Jack and Madeleine first-hand that, yes, differences exist in the world but that in and of itself isn’t something to fear. We can and should celebrate differences as something that adds color and beauty to our lives. 

From Sea to C-Suite: Chris Fuqua, CEO, B.GOOD

Despite fierce competition for traffic and transactions, the fast casual industry is a small, tight-knit community with a penchant for strong leaders who’ve taken varied paths to the C-Suite. Some CEOs started as operators, working their way up from hourly employee; some started in brand management. Others like Chris Fuqua, CEO of B.GOOD, got their start in the U.S. Navy.

I was lucky enough to work within Chris’ global marketing organization at Dunkin’ and in that time, grew to know him as a well-rounded, empowering, fair and respected leader. While we’ve both moved on, we sat down to chat all things fast (think navy flight school), food and leadership.

This interview was conducted in Boston via FaceTime & was condensed and edited for clarity.

Naval Background & Early Leadership

Panera & B.GOOD are competitors so we’ll steer clear of strategy chat. I’ve always been interested in your career path, take us back to the beginning. Why the U.S. Navy?

My family has a history of service – both grandfathers enlisted in the Navy before WWII and dedicated 30+ years to our country. My dad spent 25+ years in the Navy. I spent 8 years in the Navy. When I left in 2004, it was the first time our family didn’t have someone on active duty since the 1940’s.

So you knew you wanted to join the Navy early on?

That’d be stretching it. I was a swimmer and wanted to swim at a DI school. My recruiting trip to the Naval Academy just felt right – the history, what it stands for, the pomp and circumstance, all of it.

I think the desire to serve our country and others was always there, but swimming is what really pushed me over the finish line.

Did your time in the Navy set you on a business trajectory?

Senior year, I decided to give up swimming and take a leadership position as a company commander, which meant I was in charge of 120 people as a 21-year old. I was leading a mini organization so yes, I guess you could say it was my first taste of leadership.

Did you feel comfortable early on in a leadership position?

I’d say if anyone’s stepping into a management role without some trepidation, then some wiring is off. I had to quickly learn two types of leadership: how to manage my peers (the other 29 seniors within my company) and how to manage my direct subordinates (the other 90 underclass students in our company).

To some, being at an ‘academy’ may sound intimidating but in reality, there’s so much infrastructure it’s probably one of the safest environments for college students. Plus, the Naval Academy was founded in 1851, so they ironed it out by the time I attended.

Tell us about your time out of the classroom and out in the world with the Navy.

After graduation, I attended flight school in Pensacola, FL and then moved to San Diego to learn how to fly S-3B Vikings. Now when I say fly, I was Goose, not Maverick. I sat on the right and ran all the weapons, fuel, and navigation systems.

My squadron had a couple of different missions. We refueled other planes up in the air and also used systems on board to identify different ships out in the open ocean. We were based on aircraft carriers, which meant we could go almost anywhere in the world.

My first deployment was in 2000, and it was right up your alley in that it was global. Over the course of six months, we really saw the world – South Korea, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Bahrain, Dubai, Australia, Tasmania, Hawaii and back to San Diego. It was amazing!

Wow. In addition to your time as a company commander, this had to be a transformational leadership experience.

You have to run a tight ship. An aircraft carrier is isolated in the middle of the ocean, yet has the potential to be chaotic – you have 10 planes taking off and 10 planes landing in a span of 20 minutes, multiple times a day.

However, you get to the point where you have dozens of takeoffs and landings taking place without anyone saying a word over the radio. It’s completely synchronous, and the most professional thing I’ve ever seen. The Navy brings together people from all walks of life – from someone who had a tough childhood and joined to escape, to someone who’ll run for president someday – working as a complete unit. All colors and creeds aligned to a mission, doing life and death things every day. Being an officer in this environment was the most humbling experience that I’ve ever had.

Business isn’t always that smooth. Coming off that synchronous experience had to be an adjustment.

It was and I had a second, very different deployment before joining the business world. It was after 9/11 – our country had been attacked, there was a fear factor and it was real. So while yes, we bonded, those experiences stand in stark contrast to each other. The stakes were higher.

Transition to Business

What made you decide to hang up your wings?

My wife, Ashley, and I had our first child, Alex, after my second deployment. I grew up with my dad gone for 6 months at a time and I knew I’d have a hard time being away from my kids in the same way. So, I looked at business and law school and ended up at Dartmouth [Tuck School of Business].

Day 1, I could tell my classmates operated on a different level of intellect. Yes, I had naval experience but they had business experience so they may as well have been speaking German.

How did you find your place?

Most folks with military experience assume they’ll end up at a defense contractor. But I guess I’m a little different…I’ve always loved shopping [laughs].

I was interested in retail and understanding the consumer. This’ll probably surprise people close to me, even today, but one of my favorite things to do is walk around a mall by myself & observe how retailers are trying to sell and how people interact with different brands and products.

So, you liked Marketing.

Yes and it quickly became clear that going to a consulting firm after graduation would be an extended education where I could figure out what else I liked. I interned at McKinsey and ended up spending over 3 years there. My main client was a big-box retailer where I learned everything from operations to supply chain to cash management and mark-downs.

How did you manage business school and a family?

Ashley and I were about 30 years old and eight days before starting my internship at McKinsey, we had our second child, Megan. So there I was, traveling weekly and coming home to Hanover, NH on weekends. I gained so much inspiration from watching my wife at home with a newborn and the craziest 2-year old – she just figured it all out.

They say behind every powerful man is a powerful woman.

Ashley and I talk about the sacrifice on her part a lot. She’s been such a stable force at home for our kids and that has been really important to both of us. Flying planes or running a business are both huge responsibilities, but both fall way short of raising kids, in my opinion. Everyone does it a little differently but we made a choice to have one of us stay home while the kids were growing up. Life is long and she wants to do some other things so in the next phase of our lives, as our kids go off to college. I’m excited to see what she does!

After consulting, you got your start in industry at Dunkin’ and while interested in marketing, you started in finance. Why?

Paul Carbone [former Dunkin’ CFO] hired me and we hit it off from the beginning. Now, you say ‘finance,’ but it was really business analysis.

I came on board to lead a new team as head of business analysis – the idea was to have a single source of truth for data that’d be useable across the organization. The role led me to build strong cross-functional relationships with the leadership team at the time – Nigel Travis [CEO], John Costello [CMO], Paul Twohig [President] and Karen Raskopf [CCO], for example.

Sounds like you seized the opportunity to build something new and unproven. Did you have CEO aspirations at the time and view the role as a way to start building that path?

I think the things I learned as a 21-year old at the Naval Academy are much more relevant to being a CEO than what I learned about business analysis [laughs].

No, I didn’t have CEO aspirations at the time. I was just focused on the work – people were coming to my team with questions and we always found a way to try to deliver results. That ‘get it done’ mentality led me to take on strategy and I found myself working with Bain, Thomas H. Lee Partners and Carlyle on the Dunkin’ IPO process.

Business analytics to strategy to VP, Marketing. Did you plot the move to marketing?

No, it was organic. John [CMO] called me one day and asked me to lead Brand Marketing. Now, there are probably thousands of people in the Boston-area who’d like to lead marketing for Dunkin’. While I loved shopping, I’d never been a marketer, so I had to get out of my comfort zone and rely on the fact that John was willing to teach me.

Leading from the C-Suite

Sounds like you stepped into a role where your team may have had more functional knowledge than you. How did you manage through that?

I was immediately responsible for the marketing & new product calendar, which I had no functional experience in, but brought peer leadership skills from the Academy to the table.

I had to just get in and lead – for me, this meant listening, learning and rolling up my sleeves for lots of doing. I also had an open door policy and spent time getting to know what made people tick.

Some people lead from the front, some lead from the background. I like to lead through my team. After all, I didn’t want to be a career CMO. I’m not a pure creative and I recognized that pretty early. What I love is the chess match of getting people to work together – field marketing, brand marketing, innovation – so that was really the best preparation for being a CEO.

Earlier we talked about structure. The Navy, McKinsey and Dunkin’ are all organizations with histories of process and procedure and B.GOOD is more of a start-up. How have you had to acclimate?

Being in a start-up environment is the hardest thing I’ve ever done in my life. When I started at B.GOOD, there was less structure for sure. But in the last 12 months, we’ve built a management team, operations infrastructure and analytics and marketing processes.

More broadly, if you take the playbook from a larger brand like Dunkin’ and apply it a smaller brand, it probably doesn’t work. You have to keep that entrepreneurial spirit, and hire for 5 star athletes vs. functional experts. For example, I need one person who can simultaneously manage pricing, think about ghost kitchens and figure out how to simplify restaurant operations.

Bringing this full circle, what are 5 leadership principles you learned from your early Navy days that you still abide by today?

Make decisions – People want clarity and direction, so they appreciate leaders who make a decision. You’ll never have all the information you need…if the decision is wrong, then you learn from it and readjust.  Just don’t get stuck.

Give people autonomy – Empower people to do their jobs and build teams that work as a unit. You can’t rely on one person to make all the decisions – if that person leaves, the organization is at risk.

Understand the business – Too many leaders don’t understand their business as much as they should. Spend time with your organization’s analytics team and have your pulse on the data.

Live life outside of work – Family is the #1 thing in my life. I can’t be at every event, but I give it my best effort. Just because Ashley’s home with the kids, it doesn’t replace the need for me as a parent to do the same.

Take on scary things – I’ve taken roles I didn’t feel prepared for and just figured it out. Just say yes, and then ask for help. People often look for this perfect career path, and that doesn’t always work. Jump in.

Last question, ending with some levity. I need to know: does Ashley still let you do the shopping today?

Does she let me? I wouldn’t say she lets me do anything. So I’ll just say this – I still go shopping by myself sometimes. I could spend hours in an Apple store, a Tesla dealership, Nordstrom or REI. They all have clean design and products I’m interested in.

And when it comes to shopping, my kids like it, too. I’ve passed that appreciation onto them.

Got (Banana) Milk? Jordan Campbell, VP Marketing, Mooala

Everyone knows someone full of infectious energy, and Jordan Campbell is one of those people. Since our days at Franklin High School (Panther shout out!), life has taken us our separate ways but we’ve always made an effort to stay in touch. One thing we’d never done though is sit down and talk business. Hers is a story of taking risks & reaping rewards in one of the fastest-growing sectors of the food & beverage industry: plant-based dairy alternatives.

P.S. If you’re saying “what!?,” my favorite news source, The Hustle, helps ground us:

  • The $16B plant-milk industry rose 6% last year
  • Plant-based milks now account for 13% of the entire milk market

This interview was conducted in Boston & was condensed and edited for clarity.

Catching Up

Jordan, you’re the first interview in response to a direct request.

No way! What do you mean?

When I launched The Great Between, an acquaintance reached out and said “If you’re taking requests, I’d love to hear from someone who made a risky move, especially later in his/her career.”

And I was the first person you thought of. Love it. Yes, it’s been quite a journey the past few years and a tale I love telling.

Tell us about Mooala.

Mooala’s mission is pretty simple: to make outstanding, dairy-free beverages.

We launched in 2016 with 1 employee and 3 SKUs; today we’re at 5 employees and 4 product lines (banana, almond and oat milk, plus plant-based creamers). The growth has been astronomical – we’re in 2k locations, including Whole Foods, Kroger and Costco, and sales grew +900% last year. We expect to be in 3k stores by the end of the year.

Congratulations! Share your background & how you were introduced to Mooala.

I spent the early part of my career in traditional marketing roles: digital marketing for Pizza Hut (agency side) and la Madeleine French Bakery & Cafe. While at la Madeleine, a friend from my alma mater, Baylor, was raising the initial debt round for his start-up and looking for investors. That friend is Mooala’s founder, Jeff Richards. I believed in him and his first hire Sean Sundby, our VP of Sales, as people first and as business people second. So when they quit their jobs in investment banking & real estate to pursue Mooala full-time, my husband and I decided to invest.

The company was very early-stage – Jeff was riding around in an old, refrigerated milk truck, personally delivering orders – but we were in a position to take some financial risk.

Okay, that was your first exposure. What about coming on board?

I was at an investor event where some marketing needs came up so I offered some advice and that was that. About three months later, I got a text from Jeff and Sean saying, “We just came up with an idea over margaritas. What do you think about coming over to Mooala to run marketing?”

What was your gut reaction?

Honestly, as I read it, I said out loud, “What? RUN marketing?” I’d only been at la Madeleine a year and it was a really exciting time – we just launched a loyalty program & were gearing up for delivery. I wasn’t looking to leave but also knew it was an opportunity I had to consider.

Making the Move

Most women evaluate jobs differently than men, only considering when they have 100% of the needed skills compared to 60% for men. How did you assess and did you have to battle imposter syndrome?

100%. I asked Jeff to put together a job description for me. In reviewing it, it was easy to say, ‘okay, I’m qualified for that’ or ‘haven’t done that, but can do it.’ When I got to PR, it was ‘ummm, no clue.’ So I called my friend Erin Finegold who was running communications for the Dallas Mavericks and asked her if I could pick it up. She didn’t hesitate and that was enough confidence for me to check the box.

I then hit the phone to educate myself on the industry. I got my hands on all the free resources I could – Mintel reports, IRI data, etc. The trends were solid.

At the end of the day, I was comfortable with the job description and had always wanted to build a brand from the ground up, so it was a go. But most importantly, and something I couldn’t measure, was that I believed in Jeff’s vision and the initial branding work. I mean, he made that cute Mooala koala logo in PowerPoint with an investment banking background. You can’t do that without vision.

Give us two examples of how you tackled knowledge gaps once on-board.

Ironically, both are in areas of your expertise, Jess.

Product development – I’d never done but it was in the ‘I can learn it’ bucket. Soon after I came on board, we developed a line of plant-based creamers. Early on, I’d watch dairy aisle shoppers and ask them probing questions. Eventually, we held focus groups and I learned from and alongside the consumer about the product attributes they were looking for. Ultimately, we positioned the product around those learnings.

Public relations – We needed an agency so I laid out the basic brand work, what we stand for and our consumer demographic, and then outlined what we were looking for in an RFP: a connected agency who could build & execute a seasonal PR plan. Havas Formula reached out on LinkedIn when we were in the middle of the RFP and ended up winning the business. They represent industry leaders like Wholly Guacamole, Justin’s Peanut Butter and Kashi so we were so grateful to land them.

Take us through your responsibilities as VP, Marketing.

My team (me + a stellar marketing manager Elena Christiansen) oversees primary research and focus groups for new product launches, packaging design, on-site experiential marketing [through sampling programs & trade shows], consumer engagement, customer service, press and social media, influencer partnerships, CRM and paid media. We’ve made some key agency hires to make it possible, because I couldn’t do this on my own.

A note on start-up hiring: I’d advise to hire not just for capabilities, but also the employee’s interest level. This was key in finding Elena. We all have those things we’re good at but hate doing so we sat down and hashed through all of that. For example, Facebook ads – can you do them? Do you enjoy doing them? Can you do them and enjoy them until we can outsource them next year? We set clear expectations.

With a small team, how have you tapped into your network for added support?

Quite a few former bosses have been huge helps. My former boss at TracyLocke, Emily Frye, is now at Kroger. Early on, I asked Emily for packaging feedback and she asked me questions back to help guide me to the answer. My former boss at Slingshot, Danielle Johnson, is now at Facebook and was pivotal in getting Mooala into their high-growth CPG program. That extended network as been huge in terms of peers to bounce ideas off of.

Looking Ahead

As you map the future, how is Mooala uniquely positioned to win in the marketplace?

We make premium, plant-based beverages at family-friendly prices and given our size, speed to market is fast. We’re able to adjust offerings & recipes to meet consumers’ needs in a way corporate giants can’t.

We also pop on the shelf – the dairy aisle is packed with mundane packaging, which allows our warm, bright personality to shine.

From your perspective, what trends are impacting the food industry as we know it today?

Label transparency: Consumers are calling for honesty about what’s in their products. Labels like “organic” help certify quality, knowing harmful pesticides aren’t used.

Real: Consumers are seeking simplicity – ingredients that can be pronounced and understood. Manufacturers like RXbar have altered packaging to capitalize on this trend.

CBD: Three of the six finalists at a recent Bevnet competition were CBD brands, with CANN + Botl ultimately taking home the prize. There are still a lot of regulatory issues to sort out, but the demand is there for consumers looking to get a buzz without the hangover regret.

I’ve been keeping tabs on CBD and companies like Beam as well. For folks thinking about leaving corporate America for a start-up, what advice can you offer?

Do it, you can always go back to ‘corporate.’ What Fortune 500 company doesn’t want to take a chance on a non-conformist, a risk-taker, a thought leader? If they don’t, it’s probably not a company you want to work for. Breaking it down a bit more, I would say:

Success is not guaranteed, and failure is to be expected. There’s so many things in a small business environment that, despite your best efforts, you can’t impact. For that reason, we make it a point to celebrate even the smallest wins and learn from our mistakes.

Turn downsides into positives. You’re not going into a gig that has LTV or program ROI data; there’s no set framework. Use that to your advantage and develop your own reporting, conduct proprietary research studies and garner insights from the ground up.

Culture is everything. It sounds obvious but make sure you jive with the team – and jive well – because you spend a lot of time together. Additionally, don’t forget about leveraging strategic partners. Be sure to find expertise outside of the core team, filling in the gaps with experts in that particular field.

What are the top 3 skills you need to be successful at a start-up?

Flexibility – you never know what’s going to happen; the business and the industry shift almost daily. Having a flexible attitude allows you to identify new areas of opportunity, adjust and pivot just as quickly as the industry changes.

Drive – no one is going to be on your back; you will likely have a boss who only understands at a high-level what you’re working on. It’s up to you to evaluate success, adjust and drive the business forward.

Entrepreneurial spirit – think like an owner in every sense of the word. People often get complacent and do their jobs vs. thinking about the business as a whole. They like to be safe, but there’s nothing safe about a start-up and that’s exciting.

Lastly, you’re expecting. What does your coverage plan look like for maternity leave in such a lean environment?

Funny enough, I haven’t chatted with Jeff about this yet – probably should look into it! 

Being at a start-up, I want to work. It’s my business too. Then again, this is also my child but I’ve never had a child so I don’t know what that feels like! Like everything in the start-up world, we’ll be flexible and work towards what’s best for our family and our business.

 

Jordan & the author peeping Mooala on shelf

The Business of Social Enterprise

Margaret Skrmetti, Community Engagement Manager, Morton Salt

“Perfect is the enemy of good.” This sentiment has guided my work philosophy for years, ever since receiving a card from a former co-worker, Margaret, printed with these very words. Since we worked together a decade ago, we’ve both shifted careers but more importantly, we’ve become dear friends. One of the most thoughtful, well-spoken and successful people I know, she lives her values through a career in corporate social responsibility and philanthropy that’s spanned organizations from Bank of America and Staples to The Museum of Fine Arts (Boston) and The Field Museum (Chicago). 

Following last week’s Business Roundtable announcement re: corporations’ responsibilities extending well beyond profit [more here], I can’t think of a more timely or fitting interview. Is the state of corporate social responsibility (CSR) perfect? No, but we’re getting there.

This interview was conducted Boston to Chicago via phone & was condensed and edited for clarity.

Catching Up

Know you’re taking this call at the end of a well-deserved vacation. Thank you.

Of course, though with a 6 month old, I’m not sure it was much of a vacation. I’m exhausted!

CSR. It’s your passion & life’s work. How is that manifesting today?

I’ve been with Morton Salt for nearly 3 years, where I lead our social responsibility strategy, which entails corporate giving and volunteerism for 2,500+ employees across the US, Canada, and the Bahamas.

On a corporate level, that means helping craft campaigns that build cultural relevance and brand equity – like our Erase Food Waste campaign – and creating tools to measure employee engagement around our giving & volunteer efforts. On a community level, I provide counsel to 20+ facilities across my regions.

How did you end up in a “feel good” career?

[Laughs]. I didn’t set out to do this when leaving school, or see my career as a way to “give back.” But the fact that my work allows me to feel good about what I’m putting out in the world is an unexpected win.

Take us through your career history.

I went to Boston University and studied communications so as one does, I started out in the public relations agency world. At RFBinder, where we met, I was staffed on CSR accounts supporting Staples and Bank of America.

At the time, this was about 10 years ago, most large corporations relied on agencies for their CSR work as part of a broader communications strategy. Few places had someone doing the work full time – that’s really when I figured out I could do this for a living, but that there was a lot missing in between. I set out to be that “in between” in an in-house role, and really act as a translator for both sides.

That’s a great way of putting it – translating the needs of the nonprofit and the expectations of the corporation so that everyone benefits.

Exactly. I found a sweet spot that really interests me. After RFBinder, I moved to into Corporate Relations with The Museum of Fine Arts. I’m passionate about the arts so the role was a natural fit – I  got a taste of fundraising, corporate sponsorship, program development and event management. 

Then, my husband’s job brought us to Chicago where we are today. After a continued stint in Corporate Relations for Loyola University, I made my way back to the arts at Chicago’s Field Museum as their Corporate Major Gifts Officer. That brings us today and my time at Morton. When I started 3 years ago, the role was new to the company – CSR was happening, but it was spread across the organization. I was able to help centralize everything and build the function from the ground up.

Educate Us

One doesn’t naturally think of salt & CSR.

We have very high brand awareness, and when you ask people about our company  they almost always think of the round blue can in their pantry, but there’s so much more. Think pharmaceutical applications, partnerships with municipalities for road salt and a B2B / industrial side of the business. Regardless of application, our salt mines and production facilities are deeply embedded in the communities where our employees live and work so how we give back sets the tone for the next generations and our continued evolution.

As we speak about community,  I’ve always wondered to what extent your global upbringing laid the foundation for the type of work you do today.

My dad spent 20 years in the Army, which means we spent time across the US, the Middle East and Northern Africa. We experienced a lot overseas and at the end of the day, it taught me to accept value from all people and ideas. We’re all so much more alike than it seems yet today, we spend so much time and energy talking about differences vs. commonalities. I’m lucky to have found a way to connect people through those commonalities in my work.

For folks looking to enter the CSR space today, what advice can you offer?

In-house CSR jobs are few and far between. While the function has become more established in the past decade,  that doesn’t necessarily translate into head count. For example, I’m a team of one. 

But, while it can be hard to find opportunities, there are a lot of different ways in. I transitioned into my role from the nonprofit side, but there are company veterans who leverage their in-house expertise  to transition into a CSR role which is great, because a big part of the job is culture-building. Knowing where the work can be embedded in the company ethos is key.

Educationally, you’re also seeing more and more dedicated programs. Coming from BU, I don’t like to talk about your alma mater [laughs], but BC has a great CSR center, as does Loyola in Chicago. Most business and public policy programs offer relevant courses and Indiana University even has a School of Philanthropy. There’s always a path in, it just takes time.

I can’t help but think a lot of what it takes to be a successful CSR professional comes from pure business experience. So while college students can study it, is it in their best interest to start out in the sector or transition to it?

We haven’t really had a generation go through the full cycle yet so the jury is still out. But you touched on something important for this profession – we spent the past decade establishing that we deserve a seat at the table and at most organizations, we’ve made it. There’s enough research out there; we no longer have to prove the correlation between the work and employee engagement, consumer affinity or revenue. Now, we’re expected to keep up and demonstrate return just like any other business function so measurement is key. It’s no longer a nice-to-have, showing ROI is a must.

Where does CSR usually live within the organization? If it’s under the CMO, it must be a mandate to balance sales overnight with equity over time and CSR usually falls into the latter bucket.

Because the function is relatively new, no organization structures it the same way. I report to our CMO and that makes sense because a lot of what I do is external partnerships.

However, peers at other companies may sit in HR or Legal – especially if there’s a private foundation involved. Some even sit in Operations if it’s viewed as more of a back-of-house function. To me, where CSR lives defines how the work is focused and how it shows up in the organization.

The landscape has changed so much and now the lines are even more blurred given the advent of mission-driven companies (i.e. Warby Parker). How do you view the emergence of mission-driven business models?

I love when the work is intrinsically part of a company like it is for Warby and Tom’s. Giving back is just their model of doing business so they’re able to focus on the larger story of how they live those values day-to-day. It’s less about what’s on paper and more about demonstrating it, storytelling around it and letting employees champion the effort. So for someone like Tom’s where the mission & business performance are linked, how does it show up in the factories, the call centers, the sales teams? That’s what I like to observe.

Who’s a company you admire in the space today?

There are so many brands people love that have B Corp status and never talk about it, which I find interesting. For example, I recently learned that Athleta is a B Corp.

I’m also fascinated by Salesforce and their 1-1-1- model. From the company’s founding they’ve given 1% of their product, 1% of their equity and 1% of their employees’ time to philanthropic causes and the nonprofit sector. They consistently make top employer lists and it’s clear that their focus on giving back resonates.

Work / Life Harmony

Switching gears – you’re a new mom. How has your view on work changed since you had a child?

I always expected I’d want to go back to work and that didn’t change for me. My idea of who I am and what I want to contribute to the world didn’t change when I had a daughter. Now that we have her, I believe in the mission behind my work even more.

What about new skills?

Let’s see – my ability to multi-task has gone through the roof. I can do anything with one hand now and her in the other!

On a practical front, I’ve tried to optimize mornings by starting my day earlier. That hour before she wakes up is critical me time. We’re out the door by 7am and I mapped a new commute from her daycare to my office, which saves me a lot of time and forces me to stay on schedule. While I’m en route, I get my news from a daily NYT podcast instead of watching the morning news, which I used to love. I’m a Good Morning America fangirl. 

I’ve also learned to appreciate the adage “time is money,” especially if I want to enjoy the weekend and still get errands done. My husband and I were late to the game with online grocery shopping but Clicklist has been a game-changer.

Good tips. What advice do you want to make note of for your daughter when she, presumably, enters the workforce?

I’d boil it down to 3 things. First, there will be experiences that are good fits and bad fits, and you learn something from both. Sometimes, you can only connect those dots looking backwards so find what you love and be open to creating something from it. What I do didn’t really exist ten years ago but a path will emerge and you find a way to make it happen. 

Second, if you want to find the good fit, find good people. Good coworkers, good bosses, good friends. I spent so much time early in my career trying to map the perfect trajectory, but find the right partners and the rest has a way of sorting itself out.

And finally, work smarter, not harder. That way you can make time to do all the things you have to do and the things you love to do.

So true on working smarter, you get creative. I recently listened to a podcast with Gretchen Rubin, author of The Happiness Project, where she shared a life hack for staying in touch. She sets aside 1 night per month for social gatherings and invites people from all different circles so instead of numerous one-offs, she has a standing time that people can float in and out of. The result is staying connected without it becoming a chore.

That’s such a good idea. There’s so many people I want to see and keep up with and I’ve been especially bad about that since having a baby – I’m going to try that.

Wrapping up, anything else for Cecilia?

Just that, in addition to finding good people, be someone people trust because that opens up a whole range of possibilities.

 

Balancing Planning and Serendipity to Drive Your Career

As I worked on my next interview spotlight this past weekend (coming soon: VP of Marketing for Mooala!), I recalled a friend at Salesforce, Al Dea, recently interviewed me for his blog, CareerSchooled. So this week, I’m turning the tables & sharing my journey.

Re-posted with permission from CareerSchooled.

CareerSchooled: We love to ask people what their first job was, so what was your first job and what kind of connection (if any) does it have to what you do now?

Ironically, my first “real” job was at my neighbors’ coffee shop in Franklin, MA – it’s since closed, but it was called MelDiva and I loved working there. Meldiva was our town’s local hang out – great drinks, good food and live music on the weekends. When I moved on to study marketing in college, I always went back during winter breaks and it actually helped lay the foundation for the product innovation work I do now – food and beverage innovation for Panera Bread, and formerly for Dunkin’ Donuts.

CareerSchooled: You decided to go back to school to get your MBA while working full-time. What led you to make this move, and how did you manage to juggle working and school at the same time?

I started out my career in public relations, which I really enjoyed, but after 5 years in the field servicing a range of consumer product & technology clients, realized I wanted to expand beyond execution and try my hand at setting product development & marketing strategy. To me, a public relations skill set and agency experience transitioned nicely into a fast-paced marketing role at Dunkin’, and while I got the job, I could tell not all were convinced the skills were transferrable. So, I put my head down and worked really hard to establish myself & show the team I was willing to do whatever it took to learn.

The approach worked, but I still wanted to bolster my learning since many of the other brand managers had MBA’s. So, off to BC I went  – worked full-time and went to school part time for 3 years. It was a lot to juggle but I loved my work & the educational piece supported that, so it felt more like an opportunity to than a burden.

Careerschooled: One of your roles in your career was serving as a Chief of Staff, which is a unique role. What was that experience like, and what did you learn from it?

Yes, Chief of Staff is a unique role and one that’s becoming increasingly common in large organizations. I was honored to be selected as a resource to the Dunkin’ CMO, Tony Weisman. The role exposed me to new functional areas such as Investor Relations, where I acquired hard skills, and Organizational Development, where I observed the soft skills necessary to drive effective organizational change.

Having a seat at the table with the executive leadership team and exposure to a range of different, yet effective leadership styles was invaluable for me so early in my career. I will always be grateful for the experience.

CareerSchooled: Back in 2017, you decided to take a sabbatical from work. What led to this decision, and what did you learn from this experience?

Best 3 weeks of my life! After completing BC’s MBA program, I knew I needed some time off. My boss, Dan Wheeler, and I had a really strong relationship so in addition to being honest about how I needed some time to reset, I went to him with a plan for the when & how things would be managed during my 3 week absence. He was very receptive & off I went a few months later to complete one of my bucket list items: hiking a portion of Spain’s Camino de Santiago.

I can’t even begin to get into how transformative the experience was but the biggest lesson for me was that the work will always be there and you need to make & take the time to live your life outside of the office. In turn, you’ll come back a rejuvenated, more inspired team member & leader.

CareerSchooled: What advice do you have for people out there who are considering taking a sabbatical – how do you know when you might need one, and how can you use it to help you in your personal and career aspirations?

I don’t actually view my trip as a formal sabbatical, as I took my allotted vacation time in once chunk. So as a starting point, that could be a way to take a “sabbatical” even if your company doesn’t formally offer a sabbatical program. For me, it was a way dip my toes back into the travel arena without my career taking a hit. Since that trip Summer of 2017, I’ve been much more mindful about prioritizing travel, which is very important to me. (Pro Tip: Here’s some good advice for how to ask your boss)

CareerSchooled: In your career, you’ve worked in a variety of roles across a number of different companies and industries. How have you thought through role/job changes, and when do you know when it’s time to pursue a new opportunity?

I’m likely in the minority when I can honestly say I’ve always enjoyed my line of work & have been fortunate to never dread Monday mornings. But, I believe you inherently know in your gut when it’s time to take a new opportunity. A role change should never come negative place – it should come from a place of feeling something is off & that you’re not as inspired or motivated as you’ve previously been. They say if some element of a role doesn’t intimidate you, then you’re in the wrong role. I believe that wholeheartedly, and try to seek out opportunities to grow into.

CareerSchooled: What’s the best piece of career advice you’ve received, and how do you try to apply it as you make progress in your own career?

Hands down, words from Carla Harris of Morgan Stanley – whom I had the pleasure of hearing speak at a conference: “perception is the co-pilot to reality.” Your beliefs & thoughts about yourself manifest in your words & actions and ultimately, influence others’ view of you. So I try and operate from this lens: what you think, how you speak, your body language – they’re all the sum of what become your reality.

CareerSchooled: How do you define success in your own career?

Success has had a fluid definition for me over the years. Early on, it was the more traditional form of success. Hard work resulting in praise & promotions – all of that validation meant a lot to me. And while it’s still important, I’ve become much more balanced. As a leader, there comes a point when people know you have the hard skills, but you need to grow into the soft skills. You have to sit back, coach your teams & give others the space to grow.

When it comes to my career, I would sum it up as a dance between letting it happen and making it happen, which I believe Arianna Huffington once said. I’ve never been a good dancer but over time, you learn that each step can’t be planned and to make room for spontaneity. There are various stages of ebb & flow.

Brand Masterclass in “Yes, No, Wow”

Matt Biespiel, CMO, Consultant, Ex. McDonald’s, Visa, Olympics Brand Leader

I’ve been a member of Brand Innovators for a year and a half and the best part about it, undoubtedly, is the people. This past winter, I was fortunate enough to meet Matt Biespiel & what I recall most is his creative benchmark of “yes, no, wow,” or in his words, the only ways to react to a creative idea. Brief career rundown: Matt started at two of the world’s renowned agencies, Ogilvy & Mather and Y&R, before leading advertising for Visa U.S., overseeing one of the most effective and enduring campaigns in American marketing history: “Visa. It’s everywhere you want to be.” He then pivoted to the U.S. Olympic Committee and McDonald’s, where he stewarded the global “i’m lovin it” campaign across 120 countries.

I spoke with the former Canne Lions marketer of the year and namesake of MB Brand Consulting LLC about the people, process and precision required to keep brands like the Olympics and Visa humming, and the type of creative that drives 70 million guests to enjoy meals at McDonald’s every day.

This interview was conducted Boston to Chicago via Facetime & was condensed and edited for clarity.

Catching Up

Matt, thanks for taking the time. What have you been up to since we met at Sundance?

The headline would be “capability-building.” This time last year, I ran a curated program at Cannes which led to a speaking engagement with Rebels and Rulers in Romania and also Days of Communications in Rovinj, Croatia – which is gorgeous, by the way. We focused on how great creative work starts with the client. That work led me to another gig in China where I met with 1,000 Alibaba marketers.

Interesting – what do you attribute the interest from Eastern Europe to?

We forget that not long ago, Eastern Europe was in the eastern bloc so their marketing communications and brand-building capabilities aren’t what they are in Western Europe. There’s a hunger for outside thinking to help shape perspectives.

Olympic Era

Continuing the international theme, working for the Unites States Olympic Committee had to be a career highlight. There’s so much inspiration to pull from on that front. Tell us about that creative process and how you honed in on a message.

Well before I was a marketer, I was an aspiring Olympic gymnast. I got close to making the Olympic team, but not close enough. So going to the USOC was a labor of love and a way to give back to the Olympic movement.

Heading into the 2002 Salt Lake City Winter Olympics, the brief tasked us with three things: clarifying what the US Olympic brand stood for, connecting with consumers and raising the brand’s value for sponsors. The sponsorship remit was a challenge – would brands want to sponsor an event that, according to conventional wisdom wouldn’t return to U.S. soil for quite some time, or the Super Bowl which happens every year?

In tackling the work, we realized the brand is really the US Olympic athletes but you don’t know who they’ll be until the 11th hour and even when they’re announced, they’re not household names. We had to get clear on what makes them unique regardless of who they are, and that’s Olympians as role models vs. professional athletes. We decided to “re-package” the athletes as part of a bigger visual identity, partnering with a Canadian fashion house, Roots, to create a line of apparel that consumers would see the athletes wearing and could also buy. And it became the best-selling line of Olympic apparel, ever.

Wow. That must’ve been amazing to be a part of.

You get lucky sometimes. One day, walking down the main street in Park City, we saw a line that went on for blocks. As we approached, it lead to The Roots store. Our vision all laddered up to making the athletes more visible, and it worked.

More broadly, the brand strategy was that Olympians are “the best of who we are.” Everyone can relate to that sense of national pride and given the timing, wanted to believe in something greater than themselves [the 2002 Games came soon after 9/11].

Hearing this takes me back to my childhood obsession with the Olympics. I was hooked on those documentaries of Russian and Romanian gymnasts & what it took for them to become Olympic hopefuls. How did you strike a balance between wanting to sell hope, yet knowing sometimes tragedy is what hooks people to the story?

The strategy was pretty simple – now it seems obvious but it actually hadn’t been done before. Leading up to the Games, we worked with the sports’ national governing bodies to learn who they were placing their bets on. We ended up with 15-20 athletes and launched a proactive PR campaign. We had no issues getting the medal hopefuls coverage in the sports pages but we broadened our scope to the likes of Cosmo and Vogue, and introducing those audiences to new sports, like half pipe. In fact, one of the athletes, Trisha Burns, “taught” me how to do the half pipe – I sucked at it. Scary! Anyway, by the time she got to the games, people knew her, identified with her dreams and recognized her as a role model.

Visa & McDonald’s

Taking a step back, you were at Visa before the USOC. Connect those dots for us.

Visa is a longtime Olympic sponsor and the “we’re everywhere you want to be” tagline really fit the brand. The lesson from my Visa days is differentiating a parity product – Visa and Mastercard for example. They’re distributed through the same channels, accepted at the same merchants, priced virtually identically – so we decided to differentiate by showing that a card is only as good as the number of places you can use it. We elevated the brand by associating it with American Express and featuring places that took Visa and not American Express, like the world’s biggest sporting event – the Olympics. Amex was really was just a foil; they weren’t the competition because they’re a prestige product with smaller share, but the approach brought the strategy to light in an exceptional way.

While I can’t take credit for the original idea, I can take credit for extending the idea of acceptance and sustaining the campaign when we launched the Visa Check Card. We had to educate consumers about a branded debit card that could be used at various retailers [at the time, the market was bank ATM cards that could only be used at the associated bank]. We created a campaign of familiar faces writing checks to pay for purchases and the pain points, like having to show multiple forms of identification. Bob Dole, Deion Sanders, Paul McCartney – today it’s influencer marketing; to me it’s celebrity marketing with different lipstick.

Tell us about your time at McDonald’s – another Americana brand.

I spent 12 years at McDonald’s as the global brand lead. During that time, we had one campaign “i’m lovin’ it.” Before it, McDonald’s changed the campaign every two years. When I came in, it had just launched so I needed to nurture and sustain it – it’s 2019 and the campaign is still running around the world.

A global brand with one tagline. How did you ensure it resonated?

The strategy was called “glocal” – global voice, local accent, largely local execution. One activation that stands out came from the best brief to street artists around the world: how do we connect fans love for football [soccer] with the love they have for McDonald’s fries? We took the best work and used it on our packaging. There were other components to drive sales – an augmented reality app & a documentary during the World Cup – but it was the first time we ever changed the iconic red packaging.

Creative Process

You just described the “best brief”- for an agency, what makes a good client?

Companies need to have more right brain thinkers in marketing. Most marketing departments are staffed with logical, rational, brilliant marketers – but you’re asking that individual to use a different side of their brain to evaluate creative ideas. Creative ideas are inherently emotional and a brief can’t have 15 RTB’s or the output is bland. Strategy is about making choices and the best briefs make the choice for the agency. It takes a lot of courage, and whole brain thinkers, to do that.

Google Pixel for example – I’m sure there’s a lot of ways you can sell that thing. What do they focus on? The fact that it takes great pictures. Clients who can get it down to one thing and dramatize that choice, win.

I’ve heard you say the single most important factor in an agency’s work is the nature and behavior of the client. Making those choices is part of that.

Yes, to get great work you need the people, process and precision. And culture threads through all of that. I recall telling the McDonald’s team I wanted us to be marketer of the year at Cannes – what did that say to all the creatives? “I can do the best work of my life on that brand.” Who didn’t want that brief? But at the end of the day, it’s about driving commerce. Agencies can make it hard for clients to say yes; you can chase awards but the output needs to be commercial creativity.

For QSR marketers – what best practices can you share?

1. The best plans balance sales overnight with equity over time. Most brands go either / or and balance is key.

2. Look beyond the food – too many QSRs focus on the food. It’s food and experience. Again, balance.

3. Keep the restaurants modern and inviting. The physical experience must be in sync with how you’re marketing the brand.

I’ll never forget a comment you made at Sundance – there’s only 3 ways to react to a creative idea: yes, no, or wow. Is that also the aperture through which you view your life? Are you unapologetic in your choices?

I honestly haven’t thought about applying that lens to my life but I’m definitely in a “yes” mode at this stage of my life. As a client, I love “yes, no, wow.” Oftentimes, you see work that comes in and don’t know how to react so having a simple framework helps. A lot of brands have scorecards like that – at McDonald’s, ours was on a 1-10 scale. It gives the client and agency a shared way of thinking.

You can’t always have 10’s. Do you grant permission for 5’s in certain instances?

Well, you’ve figured that out sooner in your career than I did. Sometimes things get in the way of 10’s – time and budget, for example. Everything can’t be a wow. But that makes the wow’s even sweeter.